4.4 Internal Strife (interview)
Description
Mr R. from Java received military training from the Japanese after they had occupied the Dutch East Indies. After the capitulation of Japan, revolution broke out in Indonesia. R. and his comrades formed a combat unit using Japanese weapons. The unit became part of the Republic of Indonesia’s national army, the TNI. However, other Indonesian military forces were fighting for control of the archipelago too. On 18 September 1948, soldiers of the communist party PKI started a rebellion together with sympathisers in the TNI in the city of Madiun, which at that point was controlled by the Republic. The merciless way in which the TNI put down this uprising convinced the United States that the Republic could become an ally in the global fight against communism. This made the uprising in Madiun a key turning point in the war in Indonesia. Mr. R. talks about the brutal treatment of the communist soldiers, a painful memory that continues to haunt him.
Anonymized interview with Mr R. SMGI 1722.2 (11), 2001.
Transcription
I: “When you saw how the TNI killed other TNI soldiers and PKI soldiers, it wasn’t so clear anymore who were the good guys and who the bad ones, and who stood for what. How did you feel about that?”
R: “They were on the PKI’s side. They shouldn’t have been doing that. They were in the wrong. They were captured and shot dead. But first, before they got a bullet, they were stabbed with a bayonet. Oh!”
I: “And then they were shot?”
R: “Yes. I saw that, you know!”
I: “You saw that, and then you continued?”
R: “Yes. [Silence] It’s not nice to have that in your mind again.”
I: “Have you often thought back to that?”
R: “Yes. You can’t just forget that. It’s impossible. How they screamed when they got that bayonet in their body. Sometimes people say, ‘He’s just making it up! Are those things true?’ But I saw it! I’m telling you, the TNI bayoneted them.”
Anonymized interview with Mr R. SMGI 1722.2 (11), 2001.
Transcription
I: “When you saw how the TNI killed other TNI soldiers and PKI soldiers, it wasn’t so clear anymore who were the good guys and who the bad ones, and who stood for what. How did you feel about that?”
R: “They were on the PKI’s side. They shouldn’t have been doing that. They were in the wrong. They were captured and shot dead. But first, before they got a bullet, they were stabbed with a bayonet. Oh!”
I: “And then they were shot?”
R: “Yes. I saw that, you know!”
I: “You saw that, and then you continued?”
R: “Yes. [Silence] It’s not nice to have that in your mind again.”
I: “Have you often thought back to that?”
R: “Yes. You can’t just forget that. It’s impossible. How they screamed when they got that bayonet in their body. Sometimes people say, ‘He’s just making it up! Are those things true?’ But I saw it! I’m telling you, the TNI bayoneted them.”